Dialog Deschis: Mrs Gherasimov, I know that you have had an extremely busy schedule and I am glad that you finally managed to come to us. How was this first half year as Deputy Prime Minister for European Integration?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: The first six months were very, very intense: from the start of the negotiations, the fulfilment of the European Commission's recommendations, which were left to move to a new stage with the European Union, to the creation of a new institution - the Bureau for European Integration. In addition, as you know, we started the explanatory screening - the first stage of the negotiation process - immediately in February. So, these six months have been extremely complex, which, I think, have been that historic stage of moving from a political stage to a technical stage.

 

DD: Some of the successes of this six-month mandate - have you counted them?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: I think we have managed to build a very enthusiastic, motivated and well-prepared team at the Bureau for European Integration for the endeavors ahead. Considering the work we do every day, the fact that these people decided to come and work together as a team is a success. I, at least, see it as a success.

 

DD: As you said, EU accession negotiations started at the end of June. How is this process going? I want you to explain to your viewers the concrete steps that you are taking in this process.

 

Cristina Gherasimov: The first stage of the negotiation process is the first Intergovernmental Conference, where the EU Member States present the negotiating framework, which we accept through the negotiating position. After this first Conference, the explanatory screening follows. We were very fortunate to start the explanatory screening before the first Intergovernmental Conference, and during the months of February - May we finalised this first stage. In July we moved on to the second stage of the screening, the bilateral one. This is a technical one, where we analyse national legislation and present it by chapter, part of the EU acquis, to colleagues/experts in the European Commission.

 

The first chapter, which has already gone through the bilateral screening, is ‘Public Procurement’, and in September we will move on to new chapters, all of them from Cluster I ‘Fundamentals’. We have a very well organised calendar for next year, in which we will cover all 33 chapters, including Democratic Institutions and the Economic Criteria.

After each cluster of chapters, once we finalise the bilateral screening, the European Commission takes a few weeks to produce an assessment report, which will give us clarity and we will know how far we are from European legislation and how we are going to get to the same European Union standards that we enjoy at home. So, that's pretty much the process that follows.

 

After the evaluation report for Cluster I, it will be presented by the Commission to the Council, which will then propose the opening of the negotiations proper. We hope that in early 2025 we will already have this first discussion in the Council and that the Member States will open the actual negotiations for the chapters of the first Cluster ‘Fundamentals’.

 

DD: So far, the accelerated pace of European integration has been largely due to the very good image that President Maia Sandu has within the European Union, but also to the support of key allies such as Romania and France. Will the political support that we enjoy continue to play an important role or will it be only this technical part that you talk about? Because, so far, we have received a lot of support, thanks to the sympathy we enjoy.

 

Cristina Gherasimov: Both the technical and the political side will continue to play the same crucial role over the coming years. When we talk about political support, it means supporting governments, and in every member state of the European Union, being a democracy, elections take place. When a new government or a new president is elected, it is essential that we strengthen our already excellent relations with the new political class, the new government, in these countries.

 

Over the last two years, President Maia Sandu has managed to convey a clear picture of all the reforms and efforts made by the governing team, demonstrating a strong political commitment to transformation. Our aim is for citizens to benefit from the same advantages and opportunities as any other European citizen. It is precisely this relationship of trust, which we have succeeded in strengthening, that we hope and must continue to maintain. This is the political component, a very important one. The relationship of trust basically underpins all the technical endeavors that we will be undertaking over the coming years.

 

The technical side is equally important, because if we do not succeed in transforming the country, in strengthening state institutions and administrative capacity, if we do not succeed in building a truly competitive and strong economy, then political support will matter less. So, the two aspects complement each other and will be equally important in the years to come.

 

DD: The most important chapter, as you mentioned earlier, is Justice. You said that negotiations will start and end with the Justice chapter. However, we have a reform in this area that is slowing down and is proceeding slowly. How do European partners see Moldova's performance in justice reform?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: Justice reform, during all these years, since we have been offered the status of an EU candidate country, has played a significant role in all the endeavors of this Government. As you know, we were positively assessed as having implemented all 9 recommendations. In other words, we have a positive assessment of the efforts that the Government is making today.

 

At the same time, the Member States of the European Union and the EU institutions understand very well the complexity of justice reform. Nobody expects that tomorrow we will have a completely reformed system or that corruption will be totally eliminated. It is essential that progress is sustainable. As long as we can demonstrate that we continue to purge the judiciary of those corrupt, criminal elements, we have the support of Brussels and other capitals of the European Union.

 

DD: In which other areas do we still have a lot of work to do? Where do we have the biggest problems?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: At the moment, we can only analyse the experience of other candidate countries. We will only know exactly how much work we have to do once the screening stage is finalised. But it is very clear from the experience of other countries that environmental reforms will be quite complex, as will agricultural reforms. I'm not saying that we will have problems, but that there are a few areas that will have a significant impact on our economy and our population. Respectively, we will have to communicate very actively with all members of society about what we are doing. To make sure that we take into account the concerns that are out there and to protect the interests of different groups in our society. Our objective is, at the end of this negotiation process, to be a stronger state, with a stronger economy, with stronger institutions.

 

DD: Last year we were talking to the former Foreign Minister, Nicu Popescu, who was saying that there are a few chapters in which we are doing very well and that there, basically, the rubber stamp was left to be put and we moved on. What are these chapters where we are doing very well?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: We are constantly evaluated by European Commission experts. One monitoring tool is the evaluation of the Republic of Moldova in the framework of the Enlargement Package, published annually every autumn. It gives us a picture both internally and in comparison, with other candidate countries.

 

Last year, in the European Commission's report, published in November, we were assessed as having made the most progress overall compared to other candidate countries, and our progress was also noted on a few specific chapters, in particular, in the areas of taxation, media, and electoral reforms, which we have implemented through OSCE recommendations in national legislation. So, these are some of the chapters that have been positively assessed. Of course, we still have a lot of work to do, however, in one year, the Government has managed to do a lot, so that we are highlighted by the Commission.

 

DD: So far, we have received a lot of political support, especially from Romania, which is the main advocate of Moldova's integration into the EU. How is Bucharest helping us now and how can it help us in the future, when we talk about this technical process of negotiations?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: We are practically in continuous dialogue with all colleagues in Romania, at the level of ministries and civil servants. I was invited to Bucharest two weeks ago by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mrs Luminița Odobescu, to talk to Romanian diplomats about how their Excellencies can help us in the process of promoting Moldova's interests abroad.

 

Romania is really a political mouthpiece in all the capitals of the European Union. At the same time, at the technical level, it helps us with expertise and technical assistance. We are currently discussing how we could intensify the cooperation, which is very good, between the National Bureau of Statistics and the National Institute of Statistics in Bucharest, so that we are better prepared. Here is a very practical example where Romania is helping us for the screening of Chapter 18 'Statistics'.

 

DD: There was talk earlier that Romania could help us with people working side by side with us. Are there such talks now?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: Yes, there are such discussions. As we get closer to the opening of negotiations proper, these efforts will intensify. We already have the possibility of up to 40 experts from Romania who could be seconded to public institutions in the Republic of Moldova to work side by side with our officials to help us where we need them: either to better understand what one directive or another stipulates, or to understand how we could transpose an EU act in a way that would be to our advantage.

(…)

 

DD: Previously, the authorities in Chisinau said that it was a great advantage that the acquis communautaire is translated into Romanian and that we will be able to take it over from Bucharest. After all, do we take it from Bucharest or not?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: We are very fortunate that Romanian is an official language of the European Union, i.e. EU legislation is available in Romanian and is freely accessible to us online. Our civil servants don't have to read EU law only in English or French, but they can do it in our mother tongue, Romanian. This is a huge advantage. It saves us a lot of translation costs and saves us time, as we benefit from all EU acts in Romanian. But we cannot talk about so-called copy-paste. We will not copy the laws, because we have our own legislative and regulatory context. EU laws need to be adapted to our national laws. What we can do more simply is to see how Romania has succeeded in transposing EU law into national law and learn from the process. So, we can inspire, but not copy.

 

DD: Opponents of Moldova's integration into the European Union speculate that our country will make more concessions in the negotiations. A very sensitive topic for Orthodox society is the rights of LGBT people. How do you respond to these insinuations and is this issue of LGBT rights on the negotiating framework?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: Every candidate country has gone through these attacks, falsehoods and misinformation aimed at discrediting the European Union and the European path of the states aspiring to be part of the Union. We are not the first Orthodox country in the EU, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus are countries with a predominantly Orthodox population. We see no change in the level of respect for the rights and traditions of the citizens of these countries. At the same time, it is true that the EU promotes equality and respect for minority rights. These are not only European values but also universal fundamental values. So, our respect for minority rights is not about the European Union. It is a falsehood that we will face, I think, until the day of EU accession.

 

DD: Russia has launched a whole disinformation campaign and a hybrid war against Moldova's European integration. Do you feel the target of these media attacks?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: It is clear that the European path of our country is being strongly attacked by this misinformation, and my task, to move the Republic of Moldova faster towards the European Union, is becoming more complicated. We are not the first country to face such media attacks and misinformation. We are doing our best to fight them, and we will continue to do so by continuously informing citizens about what the European Union really is, what are the values it promotes, what are the processes of this endeavor, so that people know and understand the European Union. The better we know a thing, an object, a phenomenon, the less we fear it. This is the task of us, of the Government, but also of every citizen of the country who believes in our future in the European Union - to promote constant dialogue with those who have certain hesitations or fears.

 

In fact, the aim of this misinformation is to denigrate the image of the European Union and the efforts of this Government to bring the country into the EU. Those who launch it hope to divide us and weaken us internally. When we are divided, it is very difficult to go through those transformations which we need as a country in order to become stronger, more competitive, so that every citizen of the Republic of Moldova can feel at home.

 

DD: (...) Last weeks you were in Kyiv, where you had several meetings with Ukrainian officials. What is the relationship between Chișinău and Kyiv in view of European integration and how can we help each other?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: We have an excellent relationship with the Kyiv authorities. I think we also have an excellent civil society relationship. Indeed, the last time, two weeks ago, when I was in Kyiv, I had a meeting not only with my counterpart, Mrs Olga Stefanishyna, but also with the members of the Bureau. We tried to have an exchange of views on how things are going now at the beginning of a new stage - that of bilateral screening. We exchanged views on what we can learn from each other on the basis of Chapter 5, which we have already gone through. We discussed the timetable offered by the European Commission. So, we have a very good coordination and active exchange of views, which makes us stronger at this stage, which we are going through together.

 

DD: As chief negotiator, do you think it is a good thing or not that we are seen as a package by Brussels? We are talking about Ukraine and Moldova.

 

Cristina Gherasimov: I don't know if we can talk about good or bad. What is important is to understand what are the pros and cons of this approach. It is clear that if we had not had this geopolitical tragedy in the region, in which Russia attacked an independent and sovereign state, the European Union Member States' view of the enlargement process would not have changed. We know that, since the last wave of enlargement in 2004-2007, the European Union's interest has been focused more on internal processes than external ones. Now, in 2022, we are seeing this reinvigoration of the enlargement process, and we have benefited from this geopolitical conjuncture.

 

At the same time, if it were not for this political will in Chișinău, the geopolitical conjuncture would not have mattered so much. It is important to emphasise that the accession process is based on individual merits. These country merits will be more visible at the next stage, when we will already open negotiations proper. Now, going through together the same timetable for the bilateral screening meeting for both Ukraine and the Republic of Moldova is a good thing, because we can learn from each other and exchange views. The Commission listens both to us and to our colleagues from Kyiv.

 

DD: On 20 October we will have a referendum, which will most likely be crucial for Moldova's European integration. How important, in your view, will be the outcome of this referendum and what will happen in both scenarios: whether it passes or not?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: The referendum of 20 October is, I believe, the most important political event in the history of the Republic of Moldova after gaining independence, because we will take an irreversible course towards the European Union. I believe that over the last two years, the citizens of the Republic of Moldova see very clearly the difference between the West and the East, the values that we benefit from and that are being promoted within the European Union and the values that come from the East. All the citizens of the Republic of Moldova want a peaceful, safe and prosperous area, and only the European Union can offer us this area.

 

Only by being a member state of the European Union will we be able to feel safe and promote the interests of our citizens, as every EU member country does. At the same time, I trust in our citizens, that they understand the significance and value of this extremely rare window of opportunity, which is offered to us, today, the Republic of Moldova, and we will responsibly assume our right to exercise our vote on 20 October. If we are to talk about scenarios.

 

If we are going to have a positive vote, it will be the strongest political signal that we, as a country, are united and we want a safe path and the security of tomorrow. Because the European Union means security tomorrow. I don't want to talk about a pessimistic scenario, where the referendum might not pass, because I have every confidence in our citizens, that we realise the value that this historic day offers us in our European path.

 

DD: Yes, but still, what will happen to the negotiations if we don't pass the referendum? Do we stop them? Freeze them? Wait until public opinion changes? I mean, there should be a failure option.

 

Cristina Gherasimov: I say let's wait for the referendum results. Of course, there will also be a reaction from Brussels, as well as from EU member states. If our citizens decide that they do not want to see Moldova in the European Union, then it will be another missed window of opportunity in the history of Moldova.

 

DD: Several exponents of the Government, including your colleagues in the cabinet of ministers, on their days off, go to the districts of the Republic of Moldova to promote this referendum. Have you found time, any days off, to follow their example or are you planning to do so in the coming period?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: Since taking office, I am in constant communication with citizens, because European integration is my core portfolio. I have permanent meetings with civil society, business, students or representatives of extra-parliamentary political parties. If you want a concrete example, I had discussions with students in Bălți about European integration and the benefits it brings to the country and its citizens. I was also in Bălți on Europe Day. I celebrated this date together with our citizens in the north of the country, where I saw so much openness, interest, optimism and enthusiasm, which gives me confidence that people want to see the Republic of Moldova integrated into the European Union. My cabinet colleagues are also with me on these visits on the ground.

 

DD: The important thing is to maintain this enthusiasm among citizens. However, just to be clear, when do we finalise the negotiations? Will there still need to be a referendum?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: What is certain is that, once we become a member of the EU, we will have to make changes to the Constitution. I give a clear example. Our Constitution would allow the adoption of the EUR, if we so wish. There are different options for this step: either parliamentary or referendum. The decision on how these constitutional changes will be made will be taken closer to the date of accession.

 

DD: So, we still don't know whether we will have to or not?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: At the moment we don't know, because we have to get to that moment, and depending on the political conjuncture, the parliamentary picture, we will see whether these changes will be made through the parliamentary process or through referendum.

 

DD: I understand (...) Finally, I want to travel back in time - in 2030 the Republic of Moldova joined the EU, what will be the first thing you will do once you have finalised the negotiations?

 

Cristina Gherasimov: It's complicated to imagine right now, because a colossal effort on the part of all state institutions and the entire society is to come. But I think that the first thing I would like is to be on board that first flight, that first aeroplane, which will take off from Chisinau to Brussels - the Republic of Moldova is already a member of the European Union.

 

DD: We hope this will be realised. Mrs Gherasimov, thank you very much for accepting our invitation!

 

Cristina Gherasimov: Thank you too!

 

Interview from 8.8.2024

Video: ‘DIALOG DESCHIS’ with Tudor Ioniță, Deschide.md